Let's talk about the Leaf village

[Shirou]

-Will of Fire is mostly useless given that you have no chakra to work with when you get back up. It's unreliable and impractical as it is.

-12G has been very underwhelming. I would say that +15 all stats and a granted immunity frame sounds like a plausible suggestion.

-Some say Leaf doesn't deserve better buffs due to them having numbers, which is a very flawed argument imo. Factually speaking Leaf has more numbers on average daily basis, but they're more spread around throughout the day. Whereas Sand has an organized NA prime time where their sheers numbers can be way more devastating. On that note Leaf also has more lowbies while the other villages are mostly 50+

Secondly, In any 10v10 fight with Puppet brigades, it's basically as if you're fighting against twice the numbers with puppets that deal 153x3 colliding wave damage. A little +100 fort buff isn't going to save anyone from being one-shotted by a Flicker-Fan combo proceeded by +10x3 Puppet wave barrage

Thus the argument of discussing buff in terms of total village numbers makes no sense, judging by how 7SM/PB raid together with their ridiculous buffs together with +10 more village members.

---
Another option as some have pointed out is to tone down the buffs of the other Orgs which a good alternative solution as well.

[TeaDrinkerShinra]

So can we also talk about how Fan and Pipe need to be mastery locked? :x

[LionGod]

8 minutes ago, Shadow Shinha said:

Aye very good suggestion. 12G is very much in need of a well deserved buff. Literally unplayable otherwise.

@Lumy Not a fan of sand at all

@SDZ @Black Rain Nor am I a fan of ya two or akat as a whole

Disclaimer: In no way was I forced to write this. Like not at all. send help pls

lol

[Atrane]

2 minutes ago, Mighty M1zxry said:

Nerfing 7SM and PB puppets would bring balance to the three orgs, 12G doesnt necessarily need a buff, but a fix on the buff for it to be a HP and chakra buff would be fine.

I definitely think that focusing the stats on a certain area, such as simply fortitude and/or chakra, would go a lot further in making the buff feel impactful.

Right now its spread too thin.

[LionGod]

3 minutes ago, Shirou said:

-Will of Fire is mostly useless given that you have no chakra to work with when you get back up. It's unreliable and impractical as it is.

-12G has been very underwhelming. I would say that +15 all stats and a granted immunity frame sounds like plausible suggestion

-Some say Leaf doesn't deserve better buffs due to them having numbers, which is a very flawed argument imo. Factually speaking Leaf has more numbers on average daily basis, but they're more spread around throughout the day. Whereas Sand has an organized NA prime time where their sheers numbers can be way more devastating. On that note Leaf also has more lowbies while the other villages are mostly 50+

Secondly, In any 10v10 fight with Puppet brigades, it's basically as if you're fighting against twice the numbers with puppets that deal 153x3 colliding wave damage. A little +100 fort buff isn't going to save anyone from being one-shotted by a Flicker-Fan combo proceeded by +10x3 Puppet wave barrage

Thus the argument of discussing buff in terms of total village numbers makes no sense, judging by how 7SM/PB raid together with their ridiculous buffs together with +10 more village members.

---
Another option as some have pointed out is to tone down the buffs of the other Orgs which a good alternative solution as well.

well said

[Zelgius]

4 minutes ago, Mighty M1zxry said:

Nerfing 7SM and PB puppets would bring balance to the three orgs, 12G doesnt necessarily need a buff, but a fix on the buff for it to be a HP and chakra buff would be fine.

This would honestly be great, a focus boost in Fort and chalk would be nice rather then a tiny boost and like 5 extra dmg

[Sin]

they don't look strong? cmon rory bless up 

[The Avatar]

2 hours ago, Shirou said:

-Will of Fire is mostly useless given that you have no chakra to work with when you get back up. It's unreliable and impractical as it is.

-12G has been very underwhelming. I would say that +15 all stats and a granted immunity frame sounds like plausible suggestion

-Some say Leaf doesn't deserve better buffs due to them having numbers, which is a very flawed argument imo. Factually speaking Leaf has more numbers on average daily basis, but they're more spread around throughout the day. Whereas Sand has an organized NA prime time where their sheers numbers can be way more devastating. On that note Leaf also has more lowbies while the other villages are mostly 50+

Secondly, In any 10v10 fight with Puppet brigades, it's basically as if you're fighting against twice the numbers with puppets that deal 153x3 colliding wave damage. A little +100 fort buff isn't going to save anyone from being one-shotted by a Flicker-Fan combo proceeded by +10x3 Puppet wave barrage

Thus the argument of discussing buff in terms of total village numbers makes no sense, judging by how 7SM/PB raid together with their ridiculous buffs together with +10 more village members.

7SM is a seven man Organization, lets be honest. with there recent nerf they aren't Semi OPED as you make it seem. It's how it's sopposed to be. I'd say PB Puppets is the only problem here that needs fixing from what i see.

[Furiia]

1 minute ago, Lumy said:

I only see overwhelming buffs right now which shouldn’t be a thing. If they’re toned down there will be nothing to complain about.

I just don’t see why buffs are that significant and you asking for your buffs to be even stronger will only make things worst about the unbalance and the complaints.

7sm having jutsus +stat buff (or high dmg and stat buff) Pb doing like 700 dmg 1jutsu/ and sometimes stunning with that lightning jutsu but its also true that it doesnt hit all the time but lets be honest, you can use it as a shield for rev, for hide the ppl that are reviving or hide ppl in the puppet or also for tank the dmg like one of the video of tetsuya where leaf anbu vs sand anbu was fighting. you just had to see the video to realize how the puppets was tanking the dmg and also let people get healed/ or revived. while leaf haves a 10+ , a +10 where the only useful thing is the chak and the hp= puppets can do 700 dmg so 600- and 7sm some of them do 80 dmg on one basic, only thing i can say is that we are fighting with fire with fire 

[Desecration]

Avatar your 7man org dont run by themselves so yes it is a problem, that's why they need to be nerfed.

[LionGod]

Just now, Mighty M1zxry said:

Avatar your 7man org dont run by themselves so yes it is a problem, that's why they need to be nerfed.

True they always roll with a Squad 

[The Avatar]

2 hours ago, Mighty M1zxry said:

Avatar your 7man org dont run by themselves so yes it is a problem, that's why they need to be nerfed.

Every Organization Does Joints missons(PB-12G-7SM), If you didn't realize. So that statement is very irrelevant

[Desecration]

2 minutes ago, The Avatar said:

Every Organization Does Joints missons(PB-12G-7SM), If you didn't realize. So that statement is very irrelevant

I'm pointing out that you saying becuase it's a seven man org it should be semi-OP is dumb becuase they roll with a squadron of ppl.

 

[Itachi Uchiha]

Oh boy balance talks. My favorite lol.

I'll add in my two cents for twelve guardians. I think +10 in all stats is underwhelming compared to the other village buffs, but I like how each organization buff is unique. That is interesting and fun to me and I don't want those to change. Right now twelve guardians is a budget akatsuki (12 members -> 10 members -> 75 fewer buff points than akatsuki). 12G has a village to stand behind them, but so do everybody else other than akatsuki.

My suggestion is to focus the buff and make the stat points more concentrated. A choice of 5 different sashes between each individual stat. Fort, Chakra, Int, Agi, Str. Each sash gives a +50 buff into that ONE stat. this allows for some very creative builds around the sash for one thing, and makes the buff WAY more useful for each member of the twelve guardians as individuals. Thanks for coming to my ted talk

[Deidara]

Make the puppets a jutsu, as quite frankly our "Buff" is useless. We have to unequip & re-equip to spawn the puppets making the +12 fort useless. Add a cooldown after a puppet dies (not too long, unless the HP gets buffed imho.) Fix the multiple hits of the water wave, so it only hits once. Buff the fire dragon jutsu as it's complete garbage (Rng btw).

And seeing as some people were complaining, seeing as the puppet floats make it not pop traps.

[Desecration]

50+ stats seem too much when your dealing with a costumizable buff.

[Furiia]

The 12g stat buff is too spread where majority of the shit here are things that we don't want, like why the fuck do I want Agility, I need the rest of the stats cause I'm a wm/med but elemental users don't need agility or strength, Tai doesn't need strength or intellect. Well actually, it's not "I need", I feel normal with the 12g waist cloth. The only difference is the extra 50 chakra and 100 health. But the other stats barely raise my damage, around 6 extra. 100 health isn't much, sure i can tank 1 extra jutsu but then the extra health is gone and the other stats don't benefit what I need or atleast what the elemental user/agi users need.

[Desecration]

1 minute ago, Furiia said:

The 12g stat buff is too spread where majority of the shit here are things that we don't want, like why the fuck do I want Agility, I need the rest of the stats cause I'm a wm/med but elemental users don't need agility or strength, Tai doesn't need strength or intellect. Well actually, it's not "I need", I feel normal with the 12g waist cloth. The only difference is the extra 50 chakra and 100 health. But the other stats barely raise my damage, around 6 extra. 100 health isn't much, sure i can tank 1 extra jutsu but then the extra health is gone and the other stats don't benefit what I need or atleast what the elemental user/agi users need.

yeah that's why it's should be a Fort+ Chakra buff or just a fort buff. 12G is basically a defence org so it seems pretty fitting

[Vinsmoke]

I'm not scared to admit it but when I was mist, I was bias about these org buffs. The moment you go against them, you start to realize how foolish it was to defend something that was clearly bs. It goes for most things. I will flat out say that the balance system with this game needs a lot of work. There are more things to point out but I would rather stay on topic. There are clear major differences with all 3 buffs. People usually point out that 12G benefit the most from "10" all stats. That's just "stats" not a giant unlimited puppet summon with a hp boost or a unlimited skill coming from a sword. It's just "stats". It's a struggle. If we're comparing the 3 then you should see a CLEAR difference. For most... Please don't lie. I just want people to keep in mind that we all play different villages and we all bring in the fun/entertainment. If a village doesn't provide that "entertainment" then how will others enjoy the game? Clearly what I'm trying to point out is, people are getting tired of it and losing interest to play the game. Dealing with something that is "clearly" bs makes you lose interest. Around 2019 with no buffs was probably the most enjoyable time of the game. Most new players never experienced it which is sad. Everything felt normal. To this day you can see the major difference and it's not good. 

 

But on a curious note, who suggested buffs? 

[Yousei Reiketsu]

I've skimmed this topic over a few times and saw a few notable points. And to be honest...

 

WoF:
I think any rational person would agree that WoF is in fact the most underwhelming passive skill in the entirety of the game yet it still hasn't been addressed in full as to why that is. Aside from the unreliable RNG mechanic, You have to wait a full 10 seconds usually before you get back up. Which in all honesty, means nothing when the enemy can just camp your body and place a stationary jutsu such as tags and/or firewalls on top of your body to ensure you die instantly if you were to get back up. The counter argument is that it's supposedly clutch in raids however with the vast amount of crowd control the other villages possess, whether that be from their buff (Grand Puppets and Seven Swordsmen) and/or their village specialties (Wind Tornado's and Stationary Bubbles), you'll find yourself caught up yet again in the chaos of battle. Not to mention you have to also account for the the lag that comes with heavily concentrated maps and while everyone if usually affected, the puppets, in sands case, are still usually still in motion. Even in a 1v1 scenario, the passive literally does nothing but prolong the inevitable. Reviving at low health with no chakra is a bit overkill, you're just flicker or homing away from dying again.

 

Overall:
Nin is in an era where the majority of players travel in packs, which surface wise there's nothing wrong with... Excluding the fact leaf doesn't have much to utilize to repel, let alone compete with opposing groups. Other villages will claim that leaf is disorganized, which at times can be true however there isn't much you can do whenever narrow maps are littered with Grand Puppets that all have high damage output, backed with shinobi who all pretty much have a 3 tile wide tornado stun or 3 clams stunning ninja upon entry to camped maps for a barrage of ranged attacks that if you sub, you'll run the risk of being chained into a bubble stun. Leaf has no such utility. Sure, we could go to Sand, Mist, Takumi, wherever and attempt to place a bunch of slugs that barely fulfill the role they were designed to do, to serve as our "stun mechanics" or "heavy damage dealers" at the entrance and see where that gets us. That said, its not so hard to cop kills from leaf by camping Dark Bridge. In fact its such an effective method that's all sand and mist would do. Majority of that isn't skill, its just lack of balance.