Poison kunai

[Indra]

IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO READ, BUT WANT TO KNOW MY NERF IDEA, GOT TO THE BOTTOM.

 

Since the HP regen was revamped into something very cool in my opinion, lots of things became more meta. Dots gained an enormous impact on the pvp because they block the HP regen. I REALLY like this and support dots finally having an impact other than simply doing damage.

But there is something toxic I noticed about the new meta and dots. The poison kunai.

Its the upgraded version of the kunai you can buy in the sword shop. This said kunai was made so the intelect users could have an easier early grinding. It has a VERY HIGH base damage for the lvl 4 requierment (9 + the 5 str point you automatically have so 10 base damage) and a very monstruous attack speed making it a weapon better than many swords. I suggest that the attack speed become the same than the first sword. The wooden katana. (who only has 2 base damage..yep.)

As for the main subject of this thread, the poison kunai whole purpose is still shady. It was said that the intelect users first intelect weapon was the monkey staff while the poison kunai was here way before. Its an item that you get aquire in a way that I personally find too easy. A shop sells it, and the stat requirements are really interesting in a bad way. 10 INT, lvl 17. Thats it.

The base damage on the description says 9 but people hit of 24 + the dot for a total damage of 32. It is really beyond broken because 32 damage for an item made for intellect users that require 1 aditional lvl of stat requs (5 ints) is just free damage. It also is a free way of stoping the health regen which feels really toxic. There are currently no swords with dots and I personally wouldnt want to see one. 100% chances to poison each time you land a hit is just too much. Imagine twinfangs having a 100% chances push. Sounds exagerated right?

My idea behind a possible nerf would be to drasticly nerf the base damage from hits to the same as a regular kunai which is 9 because there is no reason it does 24 damage for the no stat requierements and level requirement it has. Its basically the same lvl 4 kunai but poisoned. I would also lower the % chances of applying a dot when hit drasticly. 30% chances sounds more than okay.

 

 

Poison kunai base damage 24 > 9

Poison kunai poison chances 100% > 30%

If you are interested to know why i think this way, read the whole post.

[Accelerator]

Man I'm this close to flicker pkunai'ing you evertyime I see you in game.

[Rumaki]

no.

[Tomo]

Ah yes nerf elementals so, wm users rain supreme

[Daizo]

Aren't you a fire user? You're just indirectly trying to buff fire one of the only two elements with a dot.

[Indra]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Ah yes nerf elementals so, wm users rain supreme

Says a disgusting medic....

5 minutes ago, Daizo said:

Aren't you a fire user? You're just indirectly trying to buff fire one of the only two elements with a dot.

There are fire, wind, medic and Wms that have dots. 4 masteries. The poison kunai indirectly makes any dot less useful/impactful. Someone wants fire because of the dot? Nah go water since theres a kunai that has free dot.

But thats not my real concern. With the new changes to the HP regen, i dont see why any INT user would chose not to take one. The impact of the lvl 17 weapon with no stat requirements is just too high.

 

[Tomo]

13 minutes ago, Indra said:

Says a disgusting medic....

There are fire, wind, medic and Wms that have dots. 4 masteries. The poison kunai indirectly makes any dot less useful/impactful. Someone wants fire because of the dot? Nah go water since theres a kunai that has free dot.

But thats not my real concern. With the new changes to the HP regen, i dont see why any INT user would chose not to take one. The impact of the lvl 17 weapon with no stat requirements is just too high.

 

The fact that swords like relig/scythe out dmg pk (even if you count the dot) and those four masteries have dots that outdmg pk's own, invalidates your post for me.

[Enver]

If anyone uses their brain u will realize Indra is right.

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Ah yes nerf elementals so, wm users rain supreme

Elementals are already stronger than WM hybrid users, unfortunatly there arent any good elemental users left to show this.

1 hour ago, Indra said:

Poison kunai base damage 24 > 9

Poison kunai poison chances 100% > 30%

If you are interested to know why i think this way, read the whole post.

I dont think this is the right way to nerf PKunai.

Fan = Guaranteed knockback
Pipe = Guaranteed snare
PKunai = Guaranteed poison

Correct way to nerf them is nerf the damage

20str Black Fan should be around 25 damage.
20str Pipe should be around 25 damage.
10int PKunai should be around 10+16 poison damage.

[Indra]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

The fact that swords like relig/scythe out dmg pk (even if you count the dot) and those four masteries have dots that outdmg pk's own, invalidates your post for me.

Swords like relig/scythe require 70 str to do 12 additinal damage than an item that has no requirement. It validates my argument a lot.

About masteries that have dots, my point is not the dot damage but the fact that it stop you from regaining HP when your chakra is full. Its an asset to some masteries and it makes them special. The current kunai makes those assets irrevelant.

You need to see this post as someone who fights against this said poison kunai and not like someone who uses it. Your whole perception of the problem is biased by the fact that you are gaining from the current situation. You want the butter and the money of the butter. You like the fact that you can trade off really good melees for free against WMs who INVESTED points to do good melees. My whole point makes sense.

3 minutes ago, Enver said:

If anyone uses their brain u will realize Indra is right.

Elementals are already stronger than WM hybrid users, unfortunatly there arent any good elemental users left to show this.

I dont think this is the right way to nerf PKunai.

Fan = Guaranteed knockback
Pipe = Guaranteed snare
PKunai = Guaranteed poison

Correct way to nerf them is nerf the damage

20str Black Fan should be around 25 damage.
20str Pipe should be around 25 damage.
10int PKunai should be around 10+16 poison damage.

You compare the poison kunai with the pipes and fans... but those are related to their masteries. Their knockbacks and snares  are an influent part of how their whole masteries are balanced. The poison kunai is just an adition to any mastery. There are masteries that have dots, some other that doesnt. Those who doesnt have other things like subs, instant cc's etc.

A good exemple are the difference between the fire and water mastery. Fire has good dots that improves the overall damage of fire but no real cc or evade. Water has no dot but an extra sub and water prison. Its all about balance and things that make them unique. The poison kunai give water what makes fire unique. A dot. A free dot.

You agree with me but you want it to lose only 6 damage which is nothing. A  very lower base damage % chance of poisoning really sounds resonnable to me.

[Enver]

21 minutes ago, Indra said:

You compare the poison kunai with the pipes and fans... but those are related to their masteries. Their knockbacks and snares  are an influent part of how their whole masteries are balanced. The poison kunai is just an adition to any mastery. There are masteries that have dots, some other that doesnt. Those who doesnt have other things like subs, instant cc's etc.

A good exemple are the difference between the fire and water mastery. Fire has good dots that improves the overall damage of fire but no real cc or evade. Water has no dot but an extra sub and water prison. Its all about balance and things that make them unique. The poison kunai give water what makes fire unique. A dot. A free dot.

You agree with me but you want it to lose only 6 damage which is nothing. A  very lower base damage % chance of poisoning really sounds resonnable to me.

Everyone can use PKunai.

U compared Water vs Fire but u didnt mention Burn and Poison are 2 different dots, Even though Water gets a free dot, Fire can have 2 this way so it matches out.
Thats why I suggested 10+16dmg cuz I dont think its too strong.

[Indra]

16 minutes ago, Enver said:

Everyone can use PKunai.

U compared Water vs Fire but u didnt mention Burn and Poison are 2 different dots, Even though Water gets a free dot, Fire can have 2 this way so it matches out.
Thats why I suggested 10+16dmg cuz I dont think its too strong.

A dot each time you melee is way too strong in the current meta. Why do you think every int users are getting a PKunai? Dots stacks but my whole point is that on top of the damage it does, it erase the posibility to regen after 5 second. 

Each melees delays about 16-20 seconds your possible regen. Melees are free, spammable, they hit on 360 degree. The current poison kunai % chance poison is just too rewarding. As a WM, I get hit a lot of times by the weapon because i have to go melee to land melees. I prefer being hit by a 60ish damage sword than getting a 100% chances to get my Hp regen blocked for the dot duration. To me, the poison kunai is way more worth than swords.

Your suggestion buffs the dot itself and the dot is the biggest problem i have with the item.

[Enver]

7 minutes ago, Indra said:

A dot each time you melee is way too strong in the current meta. Why do you think every int users are getting a PKunai? Dots stacks but my whole point is that on top of the damage it does, it erase the posibility to regen after 5 second. 

Each melees delays about 16-20 seconds your possible regen. Melees are free, spammable, they hit on 360 degree. The current poison kunai % chance poison is just too rewarding. As a WM, I get hit a lot of times by the weapon because i have to go melee to land melees. I prefer being hit by a 60ish damage sword than getting a 100% chances to get my Hp regen blocked for the dot duration. To me, the poison kunai is way more worth than swords.

Your suggestion buffs the dot itself and the dot is the biggest problem i have with the item.

There is 1 thing I dont understand, in your pov of talking it sounds like U have no access to Pkunai but your melee on PKunai will do even more damage Relig/Scythe.
70str with Pkunai is 37+16 poison dmg.

Everyone should consider having PKunai in their kit, weapon switch and dots are meta.

[Indra]

27 minutes ago, Enver said:

There is 1 thing I dont understand, in your pov of talking it sounds like U have no access to Pkunai but your melee on PKunai will do even more damage Relig/Scythe.
70str with Pkunai is 37+16 poison dmg.

Everyone should consider having PKunai in their kit, weapon switch and dots are meta.

Yes, Everyone has access to it. I am not using it because i feel like its uncool and overpowered. Like cheating. Weapon swtich and dot are a thing. Everyone playing with poison kunai because its a blatant meta changer proves the point that it shouldnt be the way it currently is. Even tho the base damage is high and should really be nerfed to the ground, the reason everyone uses it is because it cancels the hp regen changes. The dot is too impactful. Its such a game changer that it isnt an option not to play it. No matter what mastery you are. You say it yourself.

Its so good that everyone should play it. Making of it something that is too strong, to worth and unbalanced.

[Sukki]

tbh even if you will change a dmg from it to 10 pk still apply a poison so it wont change much for int users the only change would be for wm's which WS it

[Indra]

4 hours ago, Sukki said:

tbh even if you will change a dmg from it to 10 pk still apply a poison so it wont change much for int users the only change would be for wm's which WS it

Thats why it needs a % chance of poisoning.100% is just exagerated. 50% is too much. 30% sounds resonable.

[Sukki]

1 hour ago, Indra said:

Thats why it needs a % chance of poisoning.100% is just exagerated. 50% is too much. 30% sounds resonable.

ok i agree but only when rory gonna add more int weapons which gonna be popular to drop and wont be op. Then its resonable, coz atm lets be honest drop a fcking ape staff is impossible even if you gonna do it every respawn. This shit takes years to drop.

[Indra]

4 hours ago, Indra said:

Thats why it needs a % chance of poisoning. 50% is much. 30% sounds resonable.

2 hours ago, Sukki said:

ok i agree but only when rory gonna add more int weapons which gonna be popular to drop and wont be op. Then its resonable, coz atm lets be honest drop a fcking ape staff is impossible even if you gonna do it every respawn. This shit takes years to drop.

Non melee masteries shouldnt have int weapons to be able to trade off good melees against a weapon master. If you go fire earth, and dont want to invest point into STR, I dont see why you would get a melee weapon.

Weapon masters (and tai) Went for this mastery because they wanted a melee attack gameplay. Those who went medic water shouldnt have a free weapon to fight off WMs. Their kit should.

If everyone has a weapon with decent to good melee attacks, what is the point to go Weapon master?

I have to admit tho, weapons are nice. They add a little something to the game and our characters. Im actually for int weapons as long as they dont impact the game the way the poison kunai does. They also should require STR to wield them so there is a cost to wield one. An Int weapons that require int to rival with melee masteries is just straigth up unbalanced and unfair for those who went WMs.