Heartache

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Everything posted by Heartache

  1. I already made a few posts about this and they got ignored, but you know what they say, 5th time's the charm! As I've mentioned before, the fan mastery rework isn't working. This is made apparent by the numbers of people who still play the mastery, which is next to none. Only players who still use a fan weapon are element users who spend 20 points in str to use the knockback and wind hybrids who just use tornadoes for the cc. After the nerf on wind mask, fan was one of the most balanced masteries, it had as many stuns as it had selfstuns. It's damage was already low and its only homing was 2 seconds cast. It's combos required actual timing and using the jutsus in a certain order, so you don't just get selfstunned and bursted in your own combo. After tools reset - which people considered a game breaking exploit [cause they couldn't do it], but in reality was the closest to skill-intensive comboing the game's had, especially compared to current smash-your-face-on-your-keyboard-and-it-does-a-thing combo system - fan was the only mastery that required even a basic level of skill to be able to combo. For a successful combo, you'd have to get close and melee in between jutsus, which now doesn't really work, because the attack speed is way too slow. Basically, fan doesn't even have a combo now. Whats wrong with the mastery now? 1) It's a melee mastery (despite what people say or what the devs are trying to make it be) that has no melee attacks. The projectiles are buggy, do no damage and the attack speed is slow. 2) It's damage is ridiculously low, because it isn't affected by the weapon you're using. 3) On top of doing no damage, 3 out of its 5 jutsus selfstun you and 3 out of its 5 jutsus have a cast time. 4) You can't compete with elements, because of point 2 and 3. You can't compete with melees, because of point 1. 5) No build works on it. Tank build makes you a beefy piece of meat that just takes forever to die and has no way of fighting back, because you do as much damage as a mid level mob. Damage build makes you vulnerable while still barely doing any damage. Before the change, fan was forced to be tank, or you would get one shot in your own combo. Damage with 60 strength and blue fan (previous optimal build, weapon requirement) Damage with 130 strength and blue fan. Almost double the strength gives you 10-20 damage per jutsu. Gentle fist damage with 100 strength: I'm not sure what the purpose of the rework was, whether it was simply because Temari is primarily using long range combat, or because the devs found a way to add jutsus to weapons and don't want to let it go, even if it doesn't work.. but it doesn't work. Source Even if you want to keep it anime-based, Temari does use melee range. You can see it in her fights, even though its rare. She can stand her ground in close range combat, and doesn't just run around trying to get range, so she doesn't get stomped by taijutsu users. So, my suggestions (separately on combined) are: 1) Revert fan weapon to how it was, or add melee attack on top of the projectile (i.e. you can still hit someone a tile away from you, so you don't aren't defenseless close range). 2) Increase fan weapon damage and make it affect jutsus damage again 3) Add laceration to fan attacks 4) Choose whether its gonna be a melee mastery and revert it to how it was, or a ranged mastery and rework the whole kit (selfstuns on every jutsu and no damage on a ranged mastery is absurd), but that would just make it another int wind.. Right now its neither melee or ranged, and loses to both melee and ranged masteries. There are some people who say they like the changes, but they either never played the mastery and don't care about it, or just use fan weapon on an element and the projectile is just an extra jutsu in their combos / a way to cancel casts. The people who agree with me have long since reset stats to int or went hybrid. Pure fan is useless. There is absolutely no reason to pick fan mastery over any other mastery in the game. Even bubble is superior to it (more cc, no selfstuns, submastery to water which allows 2nd sub, etc). Sadly, people don't bother bringing attention to it, because they don't think anything will change.. but I hope it will. Fan was a fun mastery and it sucks to see it get destroyed for no reason. Even if @Ueda doesn't agree with this, I'd like to hear what are the plans for fan in the future? Will this ever be something that works or was the rework really just to fit the anime/implement a new weapon feature? Is either of these reason outweighing the fact that nobody even uses the mastery anymore?
  2. You don't play it. You said you will make a fan and show people, but you made new tai instead. Worst part of your delusions is, Rory actually listens to you.. it's sad times for fan and every mastery you decide is "good". You're partly the reason PvP is this boring, with your cast times suggestions and you wanting diagonal movement removed (thank God Rory didn't listen to that..). I wish you'd somehow be forbidden to ever comment or post about balance ever again. Nothing good comes out of it. You just wake up with a new opinion on stuff every day lol.
  3. Taijutsu is top tier mastery for different reasons than its damage. Doesn't change the fact that fan is bad. Show us how good it is. Have you even tried the changes? You realise that windmask is subable/can be flickered out of, right? One flicker GF combo and 1/3 of your HP is gone, one element combo and your HP is halved.. while you do 50 damage jutsus that selfstun you and leave you vulnerable. Try the mastery and fight someone who's any decent at the game, then tell me its good. Everyone who knows you, knows that you say masteries are good even when they are awful, you make a character with that mastery, so people can go "ERMAHGERD, Yami-sama is so good even on a bad mastery", then you realise nobody really cares and the mastery is actually bad, so you start making posts to buff it. When you're done with it, you make posts to nerf it. It's nothing new here. You change your mind every day.. the SS of your post from a while ago shows it. You can still beat people who have no idea what they're doing, but it doesn't make the mastery good. The change made a perfectly working mastery into the weakest mastery in the game.
  4. ???
  5. You're talking out your a$$, as per usual. Everyone knows that GF isn't about melees at all, you just mentioned it to make a fake point. I'm not going to reset stats just to go 60 str on GF and compare, but if 100 str GF does 20-30 damage more than a 130 str fan with the best weapon, it will do more damage on 60 str, too. This isn't about what GF can do, its tweaks are way overdue, this is about fan being bad. We all know that you're a special snowflake and say everything is good enough for you to prove yourself for whatever reason, but as I've said multiple times, there's a reason nobody plays the mastery. And it's not because its harder to play, it isn't.. it's simply bad. It's not worth playing.
  6. In my opinion, fan before the change (after wind mask nerf) was probably the most balanced mastery. It probably also had the highest learning curve. Unlike GF, not everyone could pick fan and be able to compete, this is why a lot of people would shy away from it. Not everyone likes being selfstunned 3 times in their own combo and having to time stuff and use jutsus in a certain order, when they can just press every key and somehow do a combo. Fan was strong when you learn how to play it, but it wasn't overpowered. It had as many pros as it had cons, which was also what made it attractive. You had to earn your wins, because a single missed jutsu and a selfstun could cost you it. Rory calling melee fan another WM is like calling ranged fan another int wind. It's also like saying GF or chakra med is another tai, cause they have strong punches. The whole change never made sense to me, it's just fixing something that wasn't broken. Absolutely unnecessary (imo), but if it'd come, it could be a full rework. The way it is right now is illogical. Tornadoes is the slowest moving jutsu that you need to be hugging someone to hit them, no damage, selfstuns.. doesn't fit the ranged combat. I've been saying that Earth is Fan on steroids. Tornado - Spikes (when they stunned) Homing - Homing Slicing - Split Barrage - River Wind mask - EP only Earth does like twice as much damage.
  7. First of all, I don't understand 99% of what you said. Second of all, why do you bring Akatsuki into this and then go "if you want to argue about Akatsuki, leave it". If you'd think a bit before commenting out of spite (on a mastery you've never even played to even have the credibility to comment on), with slow jutsus that selfstun you and do half the damage of an element user's jutsu with the same point in their respective damage stats, does not make fan a ranged mastery, just because its melees are ranged. It's kit works around close-range fights.. and right now it's bad in both melee range and long range. Try the mastery first and then tell your opinion. Also, Rory is the one who said he's trying to make fan resemble Temari more. That was the reason he gave for changing fan, if I remember correctly. You aren't prepared again, Sukki-chan. Look at the number of people who say they liked the change, but either never even had a fan user themselves, or reset to int wind. Name one person who's still regularly playing fan (pure fan, not fake hybrids).. and is able to actually compete with other masteries. It's easy to talk hypothetically and about stuff you don't have a clue about. Give me actual examples as to why the change is good? Nobody playing it speaks for itself. It was not a good change. Not the way it was executed. Both Mell and Yami played fan when wind mask was insta cast. Both stopped playing it long before it was changed. How is a ranged cast cancel better than melee, which you actually have to get close to hit? Only thing that change did was make fan helpless against other melee masteries, seeing it misses a melee attack of its own, its just a projectile that can be dodged by positioning yourself diagonally. Get selfstunned once and you've basically lost as fan.
  8. Bubble and str WM have ranged jutsus, too.. that doesn't make them ranged masteries. In its current state, fan's kit doesn't work for a ranged mastery and after the change, it's not really melee anymore either, that's the whole point.
  9. The last part is your opinion, for me it was fun before and it's boring now. I think most people who reset stats to go int would agree. Even with higher damage, fan can not compete with neither elements nor melee masteries for reasons I already mentioned. For it to work long range, it would need to work like int wind.. so that makes 2 int winds, that just scale of different stat. Failing to understand the whole logic behind making the melees ranged, is it really just cause Temari is ranged? Is it really ok for the mastery to be unusable, just so it fits the anime? lul It just simply does not work in its current state. Only way to understand what's wrong with the mastery is to actually play it yourselves. A lot of stuff work on theory, even people who were playing the mastery said it's a good change until they actually played with it and realised its hot doo doo and now there's basically no one who plays it. You cannot trade with other masteries. Even if fan had the scaling of an int mastery, it would still lose, because of cast times, selfstuns, slow moving projectiles (tornado that basically requires you to hug people to be able to hit it). All of that worked when fan had actual melee attack and could pressure people. Now you just run around throwing stuff that rarely even hit, selfstun you and make you an easy target for elements to burst you down and if a melee mastery sticks to you, you can't do anything. I just really don't understand why fix something that isn't broken. Fan was arguably the most balanced mastery, it had as many pros as it had cons. But, at the end of the day, its for Rory decide. If he's ok with a mastery no one plays, as long as it fits the anime, so be it.
  10. Because you haven't actually played the mastery. That's like me talking about medic. It's simple fact that no one is playing the mastery after the changes, which on its own shows that the changes don't work. Fan's jutsus work around it being close to mid range, now its not good in any range. Fan just loses to everything, because it's kit just does not work. It did before. Conclusion is, revert to previous state or complete rework. Fan was never about damage to begin with, it's always had low scaling, it worked around base damage. Tank build was always a must, so you don't get melted in your selfstuns. The problem right now is that it simply does not do ANY damage and has absolutely no pressure whatsoever. As I said, you lose to elements long range, you lose to melee masteries close range. You are just a beefy meat shield that can't do anything.
  11. I made 2 posts with suggestions lol
  12. " @Heartache pointed out 130 STR with strongest available fan deals around 60-70 damage those numbers are incorrect as your jutsus would go from 85-102" "which is actually more overall damage than compared to 130 STR WM wielding a Shirokata." (with shiro and 130 str) I think people should actually play the mastery before giving opinions. Damage isn't even whats wrong with fan, the whole kit doesn't work for 'ranged mastery', a 1 tile melee projectile that's buggy doesn't make it more ranged than it was before, it just makes it bad in both melee and ranged. Selfstuns and low dmg = can't trade with elements. No melee = can't trade with melees. There is absolutely no reason to pick fan over another mastery, because other masteries do what fan does, but way better.
  13. Fan doesn't need a buff, the changes need to be reverted. It's more than obvious that this change doesn't work, there's no one playing the mastery. What's the point of it being like in the anime if no one even uses it... it's not Naruto, it's a game. Fan was ok the way it was before.
  14. Nothing is good about playing fan. It used to be the most fun melee mastery and then it was changed to fit Temari from the anime, and now its neither melee or ranged and its beyond useless. You best option is to reset stats to int wind. Fan does not get better, even with high strength and the best fan. With 130 str and blue fan you do 60-70 dmg jutsus, which is an absolute joke. Tank build is bad cause you do 0 damage, damage built is bad cause it's still low damage and you get melted in your selfstuns (which is why you need HP). There is no right build, cause nothing works.
  15. Fix fan P.S. Fix fan
  16. Hi hi, I made a post a while ago when fan was changed, and people would say "it's a new change it's gonna be balanced", but its been quite a while and nothing's changed.. mastery is as useless as it gets, everyone is resetting stats to go int wind. After the change tank build (and any other build) for fan became not viable at all, cause you do literally 0 damage, so I went 130 strength. This is the damage I deal with 130 str, Blue fan and maxed jutsus: In comparison, my 100 str Gentle fist does 90-100 damage on jutsus, that are insta cast and knockback.. I get that the change was made, so the mastery fits the anime more, Temari being ranged and all.. but the execution is questionable. Is it more important for the mastery to fit the anime than being actually used at all? I really don't see anyone who wants to be able to compete using it, ever. No damage, selfstun on 3 out of 5 jutsus, cast time on 4 out of 5 jutsus, slowest moving projectiles in the game (tornados, which stun, so its ok), offensive builds don't work, defensive builds don't work, you can't trade with elements, because your damage is non existent and you get selfstunned, you cant fight melee masteries, because you are literally defenseless close range.. what exactly is the purpose of the mastery? Only suggestion I have is, revert the changes.. Or, fix the scaling and give the fan melee hits (1 tile around the character) and nerf the projectile's range/damage. If it's currently neither melee or range, instead of lacking in both, just make it be both. I really hope @Ueda looks into this and finds a solution, so the mastery doesn't stay ruined.
  17. All jutsus should go on CD if you cancel the cast. Spamming stuff til you are sure its gonna hit is lame.
  18. toxic
  19. So.. instead of giving my opinion on the new fan change, I'll give my suggestions. 1) Tweak the scaling, 1 base damage on a level 40 fan doesn't make much sense, when all jutsus scale off weapon base damage. Either make jutsus scaling off strength alone or increase base damage on high strength requirement fans, so they aren't easily abusable by elements, and change the way melees scale instead, so they don't do as much as when they were close range. I reset my stats to 130 strength to test, and all of my jutsus do 70 damage and below, which is roughly half what elements do with same value of intellect. 2) Tweak melee speed. 2 seconds melee on fan mastery, which is a melee range mastery, whatever people may say, doesn't make much sense. It leaves it vulnerable to melee masteries. Increasing the delay between melees by .5 seconds instead of a full second would be a lot more appropriate, in my opinion. 3) Since fan as a mastery can't really be considered a melee mastery anymore, tank builds don't really fit anymore. If a rework of the mastery was really needed, may as well go all the way and make it behave as a ranged mastery. Lower the selfstuns, make the projectiles more scale better and be less CC based, i.e. make tornados do more damage and travel faster and remove the stun and selfstun, or make it a snare. I haven't given it much thought, but a total rework of the mastery would make more sense with this change. Tornados in their current version require you to go really close range to hit, they move extremely slow and can easily be outran. It worked when fan was melee oriented, but not anymore. Fan mastery was my favourite melee mastery, despite what many people think it was/is really fun to play, so I'm obviously upset that it has to be changed, but I'm hoping that the devs will see the flaws in its current state and the change will be for the better. @Ueda